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Author	Topic: The 80- and 100-Page Giants
Steven Utley Member	posted February 02, 2002 04:24 AM Another item from My Wish-List: the "lost" follow-up to Secret Origins and More Secret Origins -- Weird Secret Origins! Metamorpho! Eclipso! Animal Man! Auto-Man! "It could happen." -- Judy Tenuta IP: Logged
James Friel Member	posted February 02, 2002 05:50 AM And speaking of secret origins, DC could do worse than reprint the 1970s Fireside HC and trade paperback versions of Secret Origins of the Super DC Heroes. Origin stories of Superman, Batman, Green Arrow, Wonder Woman (2 versions each), The Flashes 1 and 2, the Green Lanterns 1 and 2, the Hawkmen, The Atoms, Captain Marvel and Plastic Man. It may still be the only place that the original Atom's origin has been reprinted. Of course, a second volume would be cool too--The JLA, The Robins, The Spectres, the Starmen, Kid Flash, Aquaman, Blackhawk, Captain Marvel Jr., Doctor Fate, Adam Strange, the Challengers, Martian Manhunter, the Legion, The Titans, Swamp Thing, the Doom Patrol... Most of these have been reprinted often, but some haven't, and a hardcover collection is always nice. IP: Logged
Steven Utley Member	posted February 02, 2002 10:18 AM Secret Origins of the Super DC Heroes (published in 1976 as an oversized trade paperback by Warner Books, James, not Fireside, and between hard covers by Harmony Books) is a swell, albeit imperfect, collection. Its blemish is the second of the two Wonder Woman stories, "War of the Wonder Women," a dreary 1973 retroactive continuity implant instigated by Robert Kanigher and executed* by Gary (sic) Bates and Don Heck. Queen Hippolyta had, you see, fashioned "two figures of raw clay ... one dark -- one light." Then Aphrodite "appeared and with the breath of life bestowed the clay figures with the miracles of life and beauty." Then Mars showed up and stole the dark baby and yadda yadda blather honk: you can take it from there. Whenever I flip through the volume, I find myself wishing that Dennis O'Neil, the nominal editor, had elected to go with William Marston's original origin and use the 23 pages given over to the Kanigher-Bates-Heck ephemera** to showcase the most conspicuously absent Super DC Hero, Aquaman. But you know me: never satisfied. * Term used advisedly. ** The stolen-sister-raised-by-the-Amazon's-worst-enemy shtick, like so many other Kanigher innovations before it, soon passed over the comic-book event horizon into oblivion. IP: Logged
James Friel Member	posted February 02, 2002 04:00 PM You're right about the publisher. Mea culpa. I had the same reaction to the Wonder Woman section--the Andru/Esposito origin from the late '50s would have been a far superior choice. Still, for its time it was an impressive collection. IP: Logged
Steven Utley Member	posted February 16, 2002 10:13 AM I could just write bump and have done with it, but I feel obliged to demonstrate that this thread still has possibilities by tossing out yet another idea for a 80- or 100-Page Giant devoted to yet another of funny books' stand-bys -- robots. Here are some worthwhile candidates for inclusion: Robotman, "The Inside Story of Robotman," DETECTIVE COMICS # 138 (Aug. 1948), by the great Jimmy Thompson. Captain Marvel, "Captain Marvel Meets Mr. Atom," CAPTAIN MARVEL ADVENTURES # 78 (Nov. 1947), with art by Pete Costanza. Captain Comet, "Destination Doom," STRANGE ADVENTURES # 14 (Nov. 1951), by John Broome and Murphy Anderson, and "Beware the Synthetic Men," # 17 (Feb. 1952), by Broome, Anderson, and Joe Giella. Knights of the Galaxy, "Challenge of the Robot Knight," MYSTERY IN SPACE # 7 (April-May 1952), by Robert Kanigher, Carmine Infantino, and Joe Giella. "The World Wrecker," STRANGE ADVENTURES # 50 (Nov. 1954), by Otto Binder and Carmine Infantino. Challengers of the Unknown, "Ultivac is Loose!" SHOWCASE # 7 (March-April 1957), with art by Jack Kirby, and "The Prisoners of Robot Planet," CHALLENGERS OF THE UNKNOWN # 8 (June-July 1959), with art by Kirby and Wally Wood. Batman, "Doom in Dinosaur Hall," DETECTIVE COMICS # 255 (May 1958), with art by Sheldon Moldoff. Adam Strange, "Menace of the Robot Raiders," MYSTERY IN SPACE # 53 (Aug. 1959), by Gardner Fox, Carmine Infantino, and Bernard Sachs, and "The Mechanical Masters of Rann," # 65 (Feb. 1961), by Fox, Infantino, and Murphy Anderson. "The Warning from One Million B.C.," STRANGE ADVENTURES # 109 (Oct. 1959), by Otto Binder and Sid Greene. "Mystery of the Space-Robots," STRANGE ADVENTURES # 110 (Nov. 1959), with art by Mike Sekowsky and Bernard Sachs. "Quest of the Curious Robots," STRANGE ADVENTURES # 115 (April 1960), with art by Sid Greene. "Mystery of the Synthetic Man," MYSTERY IN SPACE # 60 (June 1960), with art by Sid Greene. Star Hawkins, "Case of the Unwanted Robot," STRANGE ADVENTURES # 143 (Aug. 1962), with art by Mike Sekowsky and Bernard Sachs. Metal Men, "The Deathless Doom," SHOWCASE # 38 (June-July 1962), by Robert Kanigher, Ross Andru, and Mike Esposito. "The Deadly Duplicate," HOUSE OF SECRETS # 36 (Sept. 1962), with art by Bill Ely. The Doom Patrol, "Robotman Fights Alone," THE DOOM PATROL # 87 (May 1964), and "Robotman -- Wanted Dead or Alive," # 100 (Dec. 1965), both by Arnold Drake and Bruno Premiani. Superman and Batman, "Vengrance of the Tomb-Thing," WORLD'S FINEST COMICS # 202 (May 1971), by Denny O'Neil, Dick Dillin, and Joe Giella. Johnny Peril, "The Ultimate Assassin," THE UNEXPECTED # 206 (Jan. 1981), by Mike W. Barr, Jack Sparling, and Bruce Patterson. Superman and OMAC, "The Once-and-Future War," DC COMICS PRESENTS # 61 (Sept. 1983), by Len Wein, George Perez, and Pablo Marcos. There are, of course, plenty more robot tales where those came from, a particular favorite being an amusing mid-1940s tale, "The Singing Robot," in a mid-1940s FLASH COMICS, but I don't have the issue number at hand. IP: Logged
daytripper Member	posted February 18, 2002 05:31 PM Wasn't there a space hero that had a robot sidekick in one of the DC science fiction titles? Sorry to be so vague, but it seems that some of the stories were drawn by Mike Sekowsky, somewhat along the lines of Space Cabby. IP: Logged
daytripper Member	posted February 18, 2002 05:41 PM I don't know if anyone else has wished for these, but it would be nice if DC could reprint the Infantino penciled and inked Elongated Man stories that served as backup. Come to think of it, I may have mentioned them. So, DC, reprint 'em, or I will forever haunt this thread! Bwa-ha-ha! IP: Logged
Steven Utley Member	posted February 18, 2002 08:03 PM You are thinking of Star Hawkins and Ilda, daytripper, who appeared in Strange Adventures during the early 1960s. Hawkins was a 21st-century private eye, Ilda was his robot secretary, and the stories, by John Broome, Mike Sekowsky, and Bernard Sachs, were light in tone and often quite amusing. An example is reprinted in the Pulp Fiction Library: Mystery in Space trade paperback. IP: Logged
Wayne1776 Member	posted February 18, 2002 08:15 PM I would like to see a reproduction a la the Superman, Batman and Flash Annuals the 1962-1963 Rudolph, The Red-Nosed Reindeer Annual. http://google.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=star+hawkins&hc=0&hs=2 Ilda, the robot super-secretary was in the Star Hawkins strip that ran in "Strange Adventures." I have a few of those, and the one I am looking at is from issue 131, 1961. It is drawn by Mike Sekowsky with Bernard Sachs did the inking. The website that I posted above does not have much info on the surface, but click on the reproductions of the covers of "Strange Adventures" #s 114, 1960 through 185, 1965(not inclusive), and "DC Comics Presents" # 33, and it will take you to a page for each issue. The "DC Comics Presents" # 33, May 1981, is the "Whatever Happened to Star Hawkins" story. IP: Logged
Steven Utley Member	posted February 18, 2002 08:30 PM As long as we're on the subject of Star Hawkins (and DC science-fiction characters generally), am I the only person here who thought Howard Chaykin's Twilight mini-series stank out loud? IP: Logged
Wayne1776 Member	posted February 18, 2002 08:49 PM Steven, you are so right. I read it, but I could not tell you a thing about it if I tried. It just lingers in the senses like a long ago skunk spraying. I wasn't too keen on the butchering of The Blackhawks either. IP: Logged
India Ink Member	posted February 18, 2002 11:43 PM If we're going to have themed 100-Page Super-Specs, howabout going with a "Mists of Avalon" trend and re-presenting stories connected with DC Yankees in King Arthur's Court? I'd like to see the 70s JSA tale from All-Star 64-65 reprinted, in which the JSAers battling Vandal Savage go back to Camelot. The other day I picked up an old JLofA 64-Page Giant which fills out its pages with a nice reprint of the Knights of the Galaxy. In this one Lyle and the gang are possessed by the spirits of King Arthur and his knights, thanks to the magic of Morgan LeFay. We never actually see what happened meanwhile in days of olde when knights were bold and women weren't particulart--but one can imagine what Lyle in the body of Lancelot might've done with Gwynevere. Still the futuristic knights do talk in some inventive Elizabethan English. An old Shining Knight story from the 40s or early 50s would be nice. Might as well throw in a Demon reprint. And I'm sure there are hundreds more possible Arthurian connected tales that could fill out the remainder of the book. IP: Logged
Spangles Member	posted February 19, 2002 01:12 AM Good one, India Ink! Thought of something for the newbies the other day; those hard to find Treasury Edition original stories. I know they've reprinted several of the Spidey/Supes, Batman/Hulk, etc of the Marvel & DC crossovers in both TPB and solo reprints. However, I don't recall ever seeing the Superman Vs. Wonder Woman, Superman Vs. Shazam!, Superman Vs. Muhammed Ali, etc. reprinted. Now, I give you that these are hardly the makings of great literary feasts..or refuse for that matter. But the Neal Adams and Jose Luis Garcia Lopez art alone are worth the having. Most of those Treasuries seem pretty hard to come by, and especially in good shape due to the awkward size. So, maybe a collection of original material from Treasuries (and Digests to round it out.) The digests had original Rudolph, Shazam!, and even some Gold and Silver 'unearthed treasures,' as I recall. Good fun! IP: Logged
James Friel Member	posted February 19, 2002 03:35 AM quote: Originally posted by Steven Utley: *As long as we're on the subject of Star Hawkins (and DC science-fiction characters generally), am I the only person here who thought Howard Chaykin's Twilight* mini-series stank out loud?** Twilight was indeed loathesome. The thing that sticks with me most is Tommy Tomorrow as an overtly racist Nazi type. Has Chaykin ever given a blonde, blue eyed male character an even break? I notice it's never been collected... IP: Logged
Steven Utley Member	posted February 19, 2002 05:39 PM I didn't like Chaykin's characterization of Tommy Tomorrow as a fascist, either. There was so much to dislike about Twilight, in fact, that I'm hard-pressed to single out anything as having been especially gratuitously vile -- but the recasting of Star Hawkins faithful robot-secretary Ilda as a mechanical sex toy does tend to bob up in memory like a turd in a cesspool. IP: Logged
Spangles Member	posted February 19, 2002 10:58 PM But Mr. garcia Lopez drew it! That's something. IP: Logged
positronic Member	posted February 20, 2002 03:55 AM While all of the suggestions for "imaginary" 80- and 100- Page Giants are interesting, I'd be more interested in seeing them get on with reprinting the actual 80-Page Giants -- at least the Batman & Superman ones, anyway. One could say that the most recent reprint (Flash Annual #1) was somewhat redundant since nearly all of that material had already appeared in recent Flash Archives volumes, but since I hear a good deal of complaining on these boards from those folks who are impatient to get to the Silver Age Bats and Supes stories, it seems to me that reprinting the 80-Pagers would go a long way towards satisfying that craving. They should also probably confine the "imaginary" Giants to characters, series, and themes that are unlikely to be Archived anytime in the near future. IP: Logged
James Friel Member	posted February 20, 2002 04:23 AM quote: Originally posted by positronic: ...They should also probably confine the "imaginary" Giants to characters, series, and themes that are unlikely to be Archived anytime in the near future. Depends on how DC sees the Giants' function. One purpose for the line could be to serve as "samplers" for more expensive products such as Archives, which a prospective customer who is less than thoroughly familiar with might be hesitant to spend big bucks on. Viewed that way, it's precisely those features that have been archived that SHOULD get Giants... As a reader who's pretty familiar with everything likely to be collected except a bit of the Golden Age stuff, though, I agree with you. IP: Logged
Steven Utley Member	posted February 20, 2002 05:06 PM Coming up with ideas for "lost" 80- and 100-pagers is fun, poz, and certain of these -- the Wonder Woman Annual -- cry out for realization. And James has a point: such books may be the only place we can hope to renew acquaintance with characters who're never going to be Archived. Still, if we had to settle for least, I'd be satisfied (or as satisfied as it's possible for me to be in this imperfect world) were DC merely to replicate books from the 1960s and '70s. The Batman Giants were nearly always worthwhile, and so, too, the Flash collections. IP: Logged
Steven Utley Member	posted February 20, 2002 05:08 PM Well, I thought James made that point, until I looked back .... IP: Logged
James Friel Member	posted February 20, 2002 10:38 PM quote: Originally posted by Steven Utley: *Well, I thought* James made that point, until I looked back ....** I'm sure I did. Maybe it was in another thread.... IP: Logged
greene Member	posted February 21, 2002 10:24 PM It's been a while since mentioning my original proposal for a regular, monthly 100-page reprint title (back before the archives had their own board, I believe). So, I'll repeat it. Dredge up the old "Adventure Comics" title, with all its glorious, historical import. Devote each issue to a specific year, jumping around from say, 1943 to 1957 to 1968, for example. And, for each year, include a nice cross-section of material, from big-guns like Superman and Batman, to worthy oddities like Johnny Quick, King Faraday, and Matt Savage. Almost anything can fit in nicely. Schwartz sci-fi, Pow Wow Smith, Cave Carson, whatever. And the final key would be to make Mr. Utley the editor-in-chief, selecting the material. This would ensure it as a most tasteful and diverse endeavor. IP: Logged
daytripper Member	posted February 21, 2002 11:39 PM I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned the Metal Men as an archive or lost eighty or one-hundred page giant possibility. The Andru/Esposito and Kanigher series was fun, and had a fairly long run. IP: Logged
positronic Member	posted February 22, 2002 07:33 AM I'm sure METAL MEN has been mentioned on people's want list for Archives collections... hell, I know it's on my want list. And SEA DEVILS, INFERIOR FIVE, METAMORPHO, etc. Hell, now that we're getting a DOOM PATROL Archives, let's push the envelope. Metal Men might seem more unlikely as the subject of a "lost" 80-Page Giant, but what the heck, I'll take 'em however I can get 'em. IP: Logged
James Friel Member	posted February 22, 2002 12:02 PM And you may be disappointed when you read 'em; it's Kanigher, after all. Now the Simonson incarnation from the '70s--that would make a sweet little trade paperback. (As would Hercules Unbound.) IP: Logged

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